Friday, September 26, 2008

Ham on Rye

The other day, at the coffee mega giant, I was having a discussion with one of our regulars. A person who is a highly paid professional. Someone who is very intelligent. They are and their spouse is a professor. During a brief discussion of national politics this person stated that they would ,..."vote for a ham sandwich as long as it was a democrat". Wow! I can not tell you how surprised and dismayed that I was. Here, I have been stressing myself out by reading everything I can to make sure I am getting all of the candidates plans and thoughts. I scrutinize everything.

I have been so worried that I might make the "wrong" choice for president and then have to be held responsible for that choice. I am concerned about getting it right and this person just cares that they have a "D" after their name! Here you have someone that is only voting for the party and could care less about issues as they come. I have been avoiding all the sensationalism and trying to look at issues logically & sensibly. Then this person comes along and makes a statement like this!!

I am sad to know that there really are many out there who just vote based on the party. Am I one, of only a few, who will actually vote for the best candidate based upon the things that matter? Aren't there more people out there who read and make choices after doing research? Rather than always doing what they have always done, or voting the way their family votes?

I have to admit that I am disillusioned with this discovery. I had hoped that more people were like me and that they actually cared about the person who became the leader of the free nation, but it seems that they would prefer a luncheon meat rather than looking at who is the better candidate all the way around.

I 'll bring the chips & pickles.


The Drew said...

Hi,Dharma,though I may not vote for a ham sandwich,my loyality to the Democratic party is just a matter of degree.Don't be mad at me for making my choice earlier than you,and I won't me made at you for being a fence sitter.I believe the Republican party-at least at this time-at the national level to be without morales or honor.Eight years of this administration is six too many.They have lied,cheated and stolen too much already.The waste our tax dollars and totally MIS-lead us.

I can't see why you are having trouble making your choice.It is the perfect storm for Obama-a corupt republican party that says and does anything whether legal or not vs. the hope and commitment to a better America with Obama.

I have made my choice..his name is Obama

Dharma said...


What you call a "fence sitter" I call a person waiting to make the MOST well informed choice. Not just by the sound bytes and catchy phrases, but by finding out about all of their stances on things like ISSUES. The things that matter.

Many of the democrats that I know, in our age bracket, found themselves in the same situation as I. They don't like Obama and for the first time in their life have contemplated voting republican. We are talking about die hard dems that read and give great amounts of thought into selecting their candidate.

The fact that you made your choice so early is nothing to be "mad" about. It is the same way all the others jumped on for the "Change" and the "Hope" that the new messiah was bringing.

As for me and my choice.... I will wait until the smoke clears, read everything until the last moment and watch the VP debate.

By the way, many in both parties are corrupt. The republicans don't hold all the stock in that category!! To say that the entire party is without morals or character is quiet a large blanket to throw around and also sounds very "holier than thou".

The Drew said...

...wiating for the V.P. debate?You're jagging my wires right?

"It is the same way all the others jumped on for the "Change" and the "Hope" that the new messiah was bringing."

Are you a member of the young Republicans club?Because that'sound bite' is straight out of the Karl Rove book of slander.

How dare you accuse me or anyone for that matter of being brainwashed into following the propaganda of the bullshit of Obama,and following him like mindless sheep....

...of course that is the only thing mindless sheep that follow blindly assume everyone else thinks.

Shame on you for your sound bite slander.

It is so republican to claim closed mindiness from people whom don't believe their way.

My guess is that there is a close friend to you that has your ear and filling you with this mindless clap trap,because only a hardcore republican could spew this propaganda against Barack Obama and the people that follow in his ideals.

But then you know me,always out in left field always doing what I am told.

the reason I can't vote republican is because they always try to trick you into voting for them with mindgames and labels, and mindless sheep

The more you try to bullsh*t be out of Obama ,the more I know that you are just talking in jest or in Moonie like madness

oh,I am just speaking in jest myself,a little but of your own medicine

But your idea of 'fair and Balanced' is right arouns as fair and balanced as FOX news and Rush Limbuagh

I hope the shephard who has your ear will keep telling you to be fair and balanced right up to the election

or is that a Baaaaaaa d idea.

Dharma said...

Let me just say that, "No one has my ear". Many people, in our age group have just expresse3d their discontent with the choices and have said that they have to agree more with McCain than they feel comfortable with Obama. I am just telling it like it is.

I am not spewing any propaganda about Obama. I am just telling you what I like and do not like. It is sad that it displeases you. I am sorry that you can not take the criticism of the candidate that you have chosen.

You claim to be so different and that your candidate is as well, but you are "spewing" the same kind of crap but in defense. All am doing is saying that I am looking at all the info from all of them. It is far too important to just jump on board because someone makes me "feel good".

I just believe that responsible people have the responsibility to look at all the material before them before making decisions. End of story. I have always done things this way for every election. This one in particular because their is so much involved and very important crap going on in the world right now.

It is quite amazing how crazy Obama supporters get when you disagree with them. Just because I am uncommitted to their candidate. They actually act/ think that everyone should just naturally love Him and bow to his magnificence. Funny really.

The Drew said...

Hi,Dharma,I enjoy that we can verbally barb with each other and still be friends...however,you may vote-I really don't how you vote,by the way-I hope you absolutely vote your conscience.

It's your smugness and demeaning manner that I have objection to.Your condensending tone is particularily annoying.Especially when you you say 'no one has your ear',but then say people our age question Obama...'conflict'.

in fact,one of the reasons I am voting for Obama is because of the 'hope' and degre of motivation that he instills in our young people.Kennedy instilled this hope in me when I was three.A hope that not just America,but me-an American-can help make a difference.I not only see this in twenty somethings but also kids way way younger..a feeling of hope the courage to dream and help make a difference.

I do not get that with Mccain.He is part of the Bush,don't worry just go about your business thieves.

That you-as hopefilled and compassionate as you do not see this,makes me think that it is because you see this and just don't want to be let down-is the reason you don't want to get your hopes up.

To me:Hope is better than surrender.A person with nothing but hope is better than someone without hope and everything else...

...but I get the feeling that you don't see things that way.You are like my 60 year old cousin John who believes only young people are Democrats because they just don't know any better-that they are just a bunch of dreamers...

..I think he is just old in his thinking...

Esteban said...

This whole election reminds me of the South Park episode where they parodied elections in general by holding a race for a new school mascot. The candidates that were seleced to run were a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich and one of the characters didn't want to vote. In the end, the point was made that nearly every election is a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich and its just something you have to deal with.

I do find there are people on both sides who get a really condescending attitude if you don't automatically see it their way. Hardcore Republicans seem to adopt the position that people who don't agree with them are unpatriotic and hardcore Democrats seem to accuse dissenters of being stupid or ill informed.

Drew, when you say things like "only a hardcore republican could spew this propaganda against Barack Obama and the people that follow in his ideals." you are making a broad generalization that people who disagree with you about Obama. There are plenty of things about Obama to disagree with. National healthcare and taxes are both huge points of contention that have to do with competing economic theories. No propoganda involved.

Dharma said...

Thank you Esteban for making one of the points that I have been reading a great deal about. The entire economic package that Obama talks about and where does he intend to get the money for all of these things? Hope & Change just don't pay for much.

I actually laughed hard, out loud, at your South Park reference!!! So funny indeed!! You could not be more right!!

Drew, I am happy for you that the "hope" mantra works for you. I just can not vote for a Hallmark production. Whomever I do vote for will be based on solid material and good sound thinking and not just how it "makes me feel" about myself and the future. Facts are what I will base my future upon. The best that I am able to do with as much truth as I can get out of both of these guys.

The Drew said...

Hi Dharma,your snide remarks are very hurtful and condensending,but I'll not return your jabs in kind.
Your wrong belief that I am just following Barack Obama blindly is ironic in the fact that you know next to nothing about his stances yourself.

I bet you have never even been to Obama's websight

but have only read the talking heads...but that is O-K.There is nothing wrong with mouthing other people's words as your own.It makes you seem clever and educated without actually having to go through the actual education of discovery.

I also understand you thinking that faith and hope are not as important as reason.Myself,the blind faith sort of guy that I am,believe you need all three.

Allot of great minds have been told that 'they couldn't' or 'that it couldn't be done'.

so,yes,I do understand your 'Obama is a fake' attitude.It is easier just saying he can't do it.It's easier to just lay claim to he's is a crook and just boasts words and deeds without the facts to back them up.

But,I am ready to dream again.I am a dreamer.I wish for a better world.and when I find a candidate that not only preaches these ideals,but has plans to back them up...I know I ain't voting for a fast talkin' george Bush who promises you the world-but not the courage to actually ask you/me to actually help.

I guess my problem is that I love America.I am willing to see that there is still fantastic and good in it.I refuse to believe just because I like a candidiate that I am a brown shirt Nazi being blindly lead by hitler.

But I understand that is all you realists ever see-is the negative.Hope and Faith are just for dreamers like me.

Dharma said...

Wow, you are just so one-sided. I am surprised. Also, it is not that my remarks are snide or condescending.

I do not go to their"web sites" why would I? That is just going to be their mantras! I go to every other web page, book and article & newspaper to get my news. Going to their sites you are only going to get what they want you to folllow, like you are lamenting about Obama right now.

I'm not claiming that he is "fake". Aren't they all just public "personalities"? It's all about who is going to TRY and produce the better results.

Unlike yourself I can not just go on "faith" and hope that this guy can perform miracles. The funding etc. has to come from somewhere. So, far he has barely told anyone where that is. He has made mention of a few things.

Like I told you before, I may vote for him, but I am not riding the wave of good vibrations and just don't think that he is the candidate that "walks on water" like many seem.

By the way, I think that "blind faith" is what people call upon when they just want to throw caution to the wind. I would rather weigh all my options until the last minute and go with what I closest to believing. If that takes me right up to election day then that is a good thing.

Most adults that I talk with on a daily basis agree that they are having the same struggle. They are not set on any guy and are continuing to learn about them as well.

The Drew said...

Hi,Dharma,I love you darling,I really do...I admit you had me reeling against the ropes.I was almost willing to admit defeat.thanks for letting me off the hook.

Your cockeyed way of choosing an elected figure is quite baffling to me,but then when you only go with what 'most' adults that you talk to' think,I can see your reasoning...why think for yourself when you have other people to poll your thoughts for you.

Vote for whomever you choose,but not going to Obabma's or McCain's websight is a bad choice.I could talk to all of your family and friends but then...never talk to would I truely know you?

I think it is 'careless voting' not studying the candidates.You are not doing your homework,you are letting other people make your choice(via their opinions)for you...I maybe only one sided on this election,but it is better than you-you are no sided...and choose to be.You don't even want to take the responsiblity of making an informed choice.

I have read both senators websights,plus the Republican party platform...have you...nah,I didn't think so.

I am one sided because I do not beleive in what the modern republicans stand for.

They are MIS leading the nation.And I won't let myself be talked into voting for them no matter how many of my adult friends tell me I should.

Baaaaaa..d choice,my friend:Vote Smart.Educate youself

Dharma said...

Their own web sites may have the information that you WANT to SEE and read. You go there because it solidifies what you want to hear and know. That is why you go to them like a moth to the flame!

You don't care to read anything that might upset the applecart for you and your guy. I prefer to read everything that speaks to their pluses AND minuses.

The people I talk with come from all political backgrounds and stratas of life and that is another good resource. Instaed of just listening to those that will naturally vote the way I would like them to vote. I talk with people who are willing to discuss. Look at Esteban here, he is a much more moderate person to have a discussion with concerning the issues, where you are so hard core that I imagine a discussion with you would be so difficult that it would be almost impossible to get anywhere or to learn anything.

Dharma said...

BY the way Drew,

If you think that the web sites of the candidates are the ONLY good place to read material I would say that Alternet, Slate, Drudge and Mother Jones have not only had excellent commentaries, but they have also ran comparisons with both candidates policies etc. side by side.

The Drew said...

Now did I ever say they were the only websights?No...I did not.But as good (or bad)as these sights maybe,there is nothing like getting it from the horse's mouth(that's why I read your blogZ:-)